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    I am not the 'papa' of the CD: Amar Singh

    Over the last few days the anti-corruption campaign over the Lokpal Bill has threatened to get derailed with the political class raising several questions over the father-son duo of Shanti and Prashant Bhushan, both members of the drafting committee.First, there was a controversial CD where allegedly there are conversations of fixing judges and now there have been reports that the Bhushans acquired farm houses from the Mayawati government in discretionary allotment. The controversy has also seen the resurfacing of former Samajwadi Party leader and Member of Parliament Amar Singh, who many believe is the one of the architects of campaign against the Bhushans.Singh, in an exclusive interview with IBN18 Editor-in-Chief Rajdeep Sardesai, denied that he was a Congress agent."I am not the papa of the CD. The CD could be doctored. The moot question is if the voice in the CD is that of Shanti Bhushan or not. Let Shanti Bhushan prove the voice in the CD is not his. I am not an agent of Congress," Singh said.He also claimed that the Bhushans are in the habit of making contemptuous remarks against the judges and according to the them most of the judges of Supreme Court have been corrupt.Full transcript of the interview:Charge number 1: Amar Singh is the 'Papa' of the controversial Bhushan CD.Amar Singh: If anyone can prove, I am ready to face any consequence. On the contrary, for the last five years in Supreme Court, I am fighting a case and I have maintained that even this CD which has surfaced is illegally taped and it is unauthorized. The boot question is, whether the voice in this CD is that of Shanti Bhushan or not.Rajdeep Sardesai: It is being said that the only people who had access to this CD, who had possibly access to this CD which is there before the Supreme Court is either the Supreme Court or Amar Singh. Because ultimately the phone that was tapped was yours. You have access to the CD, which is why you are the one who has brought the CD into public domain.Amar Singh: Rajdeep, I am contesting in the Supreme Court to ensure these CDs are not broadcasted and the ban on their broadcast remains intact. And secondly this is a very contradictory question of yours because my ph ones are tapped, so the person who is getting my phone tapped, he will have access to these CDs or I will have access to the CDs. Do you mean to say that because my phone was tapped, and I was getting my phone tapped so that I have access to those CDs.Rajdeep Sardesai: It is because you have the reputation, some would say, of someone who has access to a lot of CDs. You have a system within where you have been able to tape CD conversations. Vishwanath Chaturvedi during Mulayam Singh disproportionate assets case, now it is coming back in the case of Shanti Bhushan case. That Amar Singh is the kind of person who will have access to the technology required for such CDs to be made.Amar Singh: Say that, the perception. Perception is created by you. There is perception that your channel is infamously famous for this sting that is not necessarily true. And that you only do sting. So perceptions are not always the truth. At times, perceptions are more larger than life that can spread or not spread. Rajdeep Sardesai:: Within 12 hours of the CD coming out in papers, you hold a press conference and say, "Is Papu ka Papa kaun hai?" It almost seems that this was choreographed, which is why the allegation is that Amar Singh knew exactly what is going to happen.Amar Singh: Absolutely wrong. On the contrary, I came from Kasia and all of you, including the representatives of your channel - it was not a press conference called by me. For four hours, all the news channels were standing outside my gate. And I did not extend an invitation to anybody. You people should not have waited for me for four hours. Rajdeep Sardesai: So as far as you are saying, you are not the Papa of this CD and you have nothing to do with this CD.Amar Singh: I am not Papa, on the contrary I will say Prashant Bhushan was contesting against me and surprisingly he became the amicus in this case and to expose this CD and now he has become the victim of this case, these four CDs. I am saying Shanti Bhushan, Prashant Bhushan and Amar Singh should form, besides other associations an association of the oppressed and depressed by doctored and morphed CDs.Rajdeep Sardesai: Charge 2: Amar Singh has doctored the CD to target the Bhushans. The fact is, those who have heard the CD say, conversations from the 2006 alleged phone conversations of yours - of you and Mulayam Singh - have been lifted and then joined to allege conversations involving Shanti Bhushan. Then there is cutting and splicing which has been done because it is the ideal conversation of 2006, which are now being played in 2011 of you and Mulayam Singh Yadav.Amar Singh: My thing is that the forensic examination done by Hindustan Times says these CDs are of 2006 - all the CDs. 2006 is a dangerous year. First of all, don't intervene in between, I don't intervene when you question. Please hear me. Shanti Bhushan says that he has never been in touch with me. A) On the contrary, Shanti Bhushan was kind enough to give me an opinion very recently in tenth schedule anti-defection case after my expulsion from Samajwadi party and he did not charge me a single penny for his consultation. When I brought this point to light, he said, yes I did give him my piece of advice. So he was lying first or he was lying afterwards. Secondly then Prashant Bhushan said no-no my father has never talked to Amar Singh, he has talked to Mulayam Singh many times. Then Mulayam Singh says to Indian Express I don't remember having discussed anything with him anytime. Then Shanti Bhushan comes again, in three and a half years, I am not in touch with Amar Singh or Mulayam Singh. I will tell you, he's lying because again 2006 is a very dangerous year for him.On February 28 Shanti Bhushan appeared, at my behest, all the way from Delhi. He twice appeared and we offered him Rs 50 lakh per hearing and he was not satisfied. He charged Rs 50 lakh cash in the assessment year of 2006 has he shown rs 50 lakh or not Rajdeep Sardesai: No. The point is that you are trying to show that you and Shanti Bhushan have had a relationship that is extended over a period of time. I am asking a simple question, conversations of 2006 have been joined to later conversations to give the impression that it is one continuous conversation. The Bhushans claim just as you claim, that it is a continuous conversation, they claim they have evidence to prove from a laboratory that it is not the same conversation.Amar Singh: No, no. I am not saying that.Rajdeep Sardesai: You are saying it is a doctored tape?Amar Singh: Of course. I have never said that it is not a doctored tape, it is not a legal tape, it is not a morphed tape. How do I know?Rajdeep Sardesai: Because you are asking for the voice samples of the Bhushans. You are claiming that the Bhushans and you were in a regular touch.Amar Singh: Listen to me. Because Bhushan is a pillar of honesty, transparency, truthfulness, because I love Anna Hazare, I respect Anna Hazare. I am a politician but I am also from the civil society. I want this movement to go ahead. I don't want to use the kind of language Arvind Kejriwal.Rajdeep Sardesai: You are being sarcastic now. Amar Singh you know that politicians today have low credibility. When you say tomorrow that I want to support Anna Hazare, I want this Lokpal Bill movement to succeed; people out there may not believe you.Amar Singh: Let us not enter into this argument. We have no credibility but we are elected to govern. In democracy, we have no credibility but merely at the allegation of Sharad Pawar's angst. So please don't say that.Rajdeep Sardesai: My point is, you accept this tape has been doctored to in some way destroy the reputation and credibility of Shanti Bhushan because you have dared him to show his voice samples.Amar Singh: I am still saying that suppose my illegal tapes, suppose there is a conversation with Dawood Ibrahim, so what if it is illegal and doctored, but there is existence of some conversation, maybe illegal or morphed, but in that part where he is talking about money. Whether it is his voice or not, it is very important lesson to know Because he is fighting against corruption.Rajdeep Sardesai: You believe it is a doctored tape though, you accept it is a doctored tape. In you view the tape is doctored.Amar Singh: It might be doctored. Both of us are victims,..Rajdeep Sardesai: Which means you have heard the tape.Amar Singh: No I haven't. Let me ask you one thing, please ask Prashant Bhushan, that on Sunday 6 pm, he was holding a press conference where he was already playing the banned tapes. At that point of time in America, it was seven in the morning that means, Saturday and Sunday nobody works in America. The tape came in the market or studios on Thursday. That means he is the first one to have access to these tapes because those tapes cannot be faxed to America - Saturday and Sunday there was no working day. How come he got access to those tapes. A) He got access to those tapes B) he knows who has got it done and C) or there was no actual forensic test it was all fake work done.Rajdeep Sardesai: Ok You made your argument clear. Let me come to third charge sheet here against you Amar Singh. Amar Singh is acting as the 'political agent' of the Congress. This is the third charge against you. That you are doing what you are doing at the behest of the ruling party Congress. You are now even sharing platforms with the likes of Digvijay Singh and Salman Khurshid. In your press conferences, you are virtually endorsing Digvijay Singh when he targets the Bhushans or the people close to them saying that they must answer the allegations on the property. They must answer the allegations made by Digvijay Singh. You are acting as an agent of the Congress, because you are looking to ally with the Congress for the next year's UPA elections. Amar Singh: Very funny. When ram Yadav visits Anna Hazare sahib's movement, when Advani ji endorses his movement, when Muktarabas Naqvi and Raju Pratap Rudy openly accuses me of being an agent, they are all from one saffron party. Then I can also very easily say, this entire movement t is also saffronised by the BJP. But I wont say just like that someone like Anand Kejriwal is an agent.Rajdeep Sardesai: UPA is trying to derail this movement and they are using you, UPA is using you. This is a charge. Even Naqvi said that a supaari is given to Amar Singh to ensure that the Lokpal Bill movement is derailed. Amar Singh: Absolutely nonsense. Rajputana school was open in Farrukhabad. Because it was a college opened by my community and Digvijaya Singh is also from my community and incidentally he happens to be in-charge of Congress and now-a-days he is very active, it was a mere coincidence that all of us were assembled there.Rajdeep Sardesai: Are you moving closer to UPA ahead of next year's elections. You want a tie-up with Congress, yes or no.Amar Singh: As of now, there is no such talk.Rajdeep Sardesai: But after being deserted by the Samajwadi party, Congress is an option for you. Yes or No.Amar Singh: Samajwadi Party's supremo, there is a threat from Mamata, there is a threat from Karunanidhi. Whether Congress is giving him clearance or not, he always says, "Ghabrao mat, main hoon na". So if he is behaving like that in secular policy of the country, Congress is a major force, I don't deny that, but I am not an agent of Congress. Rajdeep Sardesai: And you are not working in tandem with Digvijay Singh to discredit the entire Lokpal Bill.Amar Singh: Absolutely not. On the contrary, Anna Hazare and Digvijay Singh are very close. Digivijaya Singh kept Anna Hazare, when he was the CM, in the planning commission or some important committee.Rajdeep Sardesai: Ok the fourth charge against AMar Singh is that Amar Singh is targeting the judiciary to help his corporate friends. One charge which is another serious one, is somewhere you are trying to suggest, the judges who have been fixed, are the same judge who is handling your phone tapping case and the 2G case. And that is where your corporate friends come in, that is the accusation.Amar Singh: You love your voice Rajdeep. What do I do? Please try to love my voice as well. Please let me speak. So the thing is, if I would have done that, then I would have done that during the stage of argument, now the argument in my case is were and the judgement is deserved. Why will I do it now? Number one. Number two, in 2G cases, everything is done, alleged criminals involved in this, they are nabbed, they are in jail people are named, they are chargesheeted, and the case is in progress. So everything is done in the 2G case also. So if I wanted to derail it, I would have derailed it at the very initial and primitive stage. Now the judgement is over, my judgement is reserved and even if my tapes are made public, they are of no news value because unofficially they are on the net. Rajdeep Sardesai: You are seeking to embarrass a judge who is appearing in the 2G case because there are important corporate friends of yours. I won’t even name them on this programme who are facing serious charges. Amar Singh: Absolutely not. If Bill Clinton's brother did something wrong. He was the president of the US twice, he was in jail while he was the President. If any important friend, I am also not naming anybody, if he has done any wrong doing - my brother, my friend, my close friends - I cannot change my friendship, I cannot change my relationship. But at the same time, I am nobody's agent if they have done wrong, they will have to face the music.Rajdeep Sardesai: You are not targeting the judiciary, indirectly you are targeting the Bhushans by saying that they are trying to fix judges in the tape, that slice of conversation which is there.Amar Singh: I have not said that and let me tell you, this is the habit of Bhushans, KG Balakrishnan is so-and-so, I don't even want to use what kind of word they have used, and Bhushans they are in a habit of making comments on even the present CJI Mr Kapadia. They have used filthy language and they are facing contempt and they are bing defended by Ram jethmalani. Earlier in the contempt charge, Shanti Bhushan would have been in jail but because of Ram Jethmalani, he apologised in front of an open court and that is why he is out of the bar. So it is his habit that all the judges are corrupt, present CJI Kapadia is corrupt, KG Balakrishnan is corrupt, most of the SC judges are corrupt. This is Shanti Bhushan not Amar Singh. This is Shanti Bhushan and not Amar Singh. I am frightened, I fear them, I hold my ears and I wag my tongue.Rajdeep Sardesai: Ok my final charge is that Amar Singh is settling personal scores with the Bhushans. Because the Bhushans have targeted you through PILs in the phone-tapping case, therefore you are targeting them today. Therefore you are making these kinds of allegations today. It has now become a personal battle at one level between you and the Bhushans.Amar Singh: On the contrary, they should be on my side. For five years, I was battling alone doctored, morphed, illegal, unauthorized tapes in which Prashant Bhushan was fingering me, now he is sailing in the same boat. We are the co-victims, so we should form an association of the victim of doctored tapes.Rajdeep Sardesai: No you have already said that because in your press conference, you also referred to the property they have in Allahabad, you have of course now with the new revelations in the New Indian express about the two farm houses which were given in discretionary allotment by the Mayawati government.Amar Singh: Mr Rajdeep Sardesai, Rs 90066, Rs 5000 say to agreement. Then 2009, Rs 90000 remaining payment, in 1 lakh, property of Rs 5 crore is grabbed by them and Rs 10, 35,000 stamp duty is slammed to them not by UPA not by Amar Singh but by mayawati government who has gifted them farm house in lieu of the Noida park case that bargain has taken place.Rajdeep Sardesai: Again you are making allegations. You are making serious allegations that Bhushans have got land in lieu of the Noida Ambedkar Park case. That's the allegation you have just made. You have made an allegation just now.Amar Singh: Mr Rajdeep Sardesai, allegation is not photo of Shanti Bhushan also. Because he is the representative of the civil society also. If he is going to throw stones at others, Mr Bhushan will also get it back.Rajdeep Sardesai: You are making an allegation; you are saying that Mayawati government gave land to Shanti BhushanAmar Singh: I am just quoting ‘Indian Express’. It is there in ‘Indian Express’.Rajdeep Sardesai: They have made a charge. This is a personal battle between you and the Bhushans. You want to settle scores. Or you are being used by someone to settle the scores.Amar Singh: We are co-victims. Jo maine daastan apni sunai, aap kyun roye? Tabahi tto hamare dil pe chai, Shanti Bhushan ji aap kyun roye? Paanch saal tak tto main fassa tha, doctored tapes ke chakkar mein, ab ye bhi fas gaye. Leki kyunki ye Hazare ji ke khaas hain, chairman hain, awaaz inki hai ki nahi, sample do, pramaan lo.Rajdeep Sardesai: If the tape is doctored, then there are obviously serious questions that arise, whether this tape has been done to fix the Bhushans. I am not holding a brief for the Bhushans. I am only asking the questions. My final question to you Amar Singh, is this entire campaign now designed to somewhere derail the Lokpal bill. That the politicians have come together, that the politicians have unnerved ki Anna hazare aur uski movement ki credibility ko khatam karma hai and we have to somehow finish it. The Bhushans are your targets because you believe you have stuff on them.Amar Singh: Inki jeeb pe bhi main ghus gaya tha kya? Maine bola tha kya ki bada achca manage karta hai Prashant Bhushan agar bola hai. Inke intrest mein apna voice sample deke clear kara de ki unhone nahi bola hai. Rajdeep Sardesai: But what if it is joined from some other conversation? You are saying that the conversation is saying that Prashant Bhushan will manage the judge. Who is he to say whether this has been said?Amar Singh: main bola hoon k agar join bhi hai Honolulu mein, manali mein, Obama ke saath khaana khaane mein, times square mein kahin tto bola hai agar joda bhi hai tto. Kis sandrabh mein bola wo clear kar de. Clear kar ke ki agar awaaz hain aur unhone bola hai;..Rajdeep Sardesai: You have heard the CD, you have seen the CD Amar Singh: I have not heard, I have not seen it because I don't have the time to see Rajdeep Sardesai: So you are making all kinds of allegations by what you have seen in the newspapers, what you have heard and you are saying you have the evidence of it.Amar Singh: I am the victim of doctored tapes. Even then they are saying I am the papa. Now BJP is saying I am the papa. On mere conjecture without any solid evidence. If perception is their domain, perception can be my domain as well. Rajdeep Sardesai: Final question to you Amar Singh ji, there is an Amar Chitra katha somewhere and Anna Chitra katha some would say. There is credibility of the Bhushans. He is a former lawmaker, some would say he has run campaign against corruption, and there is you Amar Singh, who belongs to a tribe, ie, politicians, whose credibility is low. You yourself have faced several charges in the past. Credibility of the Bhushans vs credibility of Amar Singh. Isn’t it a no contest?Amar Singh: Arey what charges faced? Am I in the 2G scam, am I in fodder scam? Am I in food-grain ghotala? Kaun sa charge hai mere upar?Rajdeep Sardesai: Would you agree that the credibility of people like you…Amar Singh: Mujhe beizzat karne k liye kyun bulaaye ho yahan (Have you called me to insult me)? Rajdeep Sardesai: I am asking you.Amar Singh: Aise to tumhari credibility bhi kharaab hai (your credibility if also questionable).Rajdeep Sardesai: You are saying they should step aside meanwhile the charges are taken care of?Amar Singh: Obviously. He can be chairman in abeyance.Rajdeep Sardesai: So is that your agenda? Some would say that is you agenda? Amar Singh: I am also an individual. I am also entitled to have an opinion.Rajdeep Sardesai: Thank you for being so combative as always. Appreciate your joining us.